The Clintons truly do want to bring the party down with them. Winning ugly (cheating) is no way to unite the party against the GOP. If they think enough Obama supporters will forgive them come November to give them a win, they're sadly mistaken. It's really depressing that they'd stoop so low for their own advantage.

I thought Hillary said she would fight the rightwing smear machine - instead, she really meant she'd fight LIKE them

"The Clintons truly do want to bring the party down with them. "

agreed. they tried the first time with bill's impeachment, this time they will try harder. total power or total destruction. these two are completely out of control.

CLINTONS OUT OF CONTROL

I will support Hillary if she wins the majority of pledged delegates. But if Barack wins the pledged delegates, and then Hillary steals the nomination by twisting the rules to seat Florida and Michigan, and by twisting the arms of superdelegates, I will vote for McCain.

The Clinton camp has run through all their new folks to blame for their recent losses - blacks, activists, yuppies, hippies, young people - so they're going back to their old favorite: Republicans. "They made us do it! It's their fault that Florida was early!". Pathetic. I supported Bill twice and through impeachment. No more - they can't be allowed to drag the party down to defeat.

Either the DNC is too scared to cross the Clinton's or they are just waiting for them to implode. If the nomination goes to HRC via the dirty tricks express...there may even be a movement to get HRC off the Dem ticket a la Gray Davis in California not too long ago...I think they are really underestimating what is going on with Obama...and what he has unleashed.

For those of you that might get spun with What our fine former president is putting out there, let me set the record straight. I am a resident of Florida and the bill that came before the state legislature of moving the primary to the January date was part of a over all bill that included doing away with the awful touchscreen voting machines here in FLorida. However both Republicans AND Democrats voted overwhelmingly for the passage of the bill. For Bill to imply that it was the republicans that did it is pure spin. The democrats could have stopped it or voted against it but they did not. Nice try Slick.

And mind you I am a democrat but I am incensed by the Clinton machine saying or doing anything to get their way. If they seat the Florida Delegates as is, I will withdraw from the Democratic party and register as an independent. I also voted for Bill 2x, but am sick of his and Hillary's crap.

If Billary steals the nomination (or is perceived to have stolen the nomination), she will not get my vote. Period. Even if I agreed 100% with her political ideas. Throw it out, I'll either vote for McCain or sit this one out.

"we had nothing to do with it."
Of course, WE (the voters) knew all along this was a run for a 3rd Clinton term. But Bill makes it official when he uses the plural in this manner.

I'm a Florida voter. I knew my primary preference wouldn't count but I voted anyway. I was annoyed when she came into town for a victory party disguised as thanking her supporters and I am appalled that The Clintons would encourage another Florida vote spectacle in their quest for a 3rd term.

Their desparation is evident and somewhat pathetic!

I'm with you Ken - contempt for the rules is a Rove hallmark, and the last thing we need is ANOTHER president who acts this way. If this is how she acts in a primary, how would she act as president?

More than one state has had GOP and Dem primaries on different days. No, Bill, you're going to have to do better than that.

Agreed, Ken. I will support the candidate that wins a majority of pledged delegates. If the Clintons try to seat Florida without a 'revote' or 'caucus' that gives both candidates a chance to campaign throughout the state, I will abandon political engagement altogether for at least a decade.

Billary would have a little more credibility had they fought this battle, say, back in December, before it became obvious they would have to wage a real campaign. Does anyone believe they'd be fighting for the poor, disenfranchised voters of FL and MI if Obama stood to gain? How much more self serving can you get than these two? They'd rather see their party go down in flames than to see someone else get the nomination. Absolutely despicable. I will gladly vote for McCain instead of Hillary, no matter how she gets the nomination.

Does this at least mean they've given up on Michigan, where Obama wasn't even on the ballot?

The fractured logic, the sense of entitlement, the lack of any semblance of fair play, the blind arrogance in the face of the will of the people, the totally self-serving motivation sounds an awful lot like...well, you know who.

If she wins the nomination because the party decides to count Michigan and Florida, I will unregister as a Democrat, donate money to the McCain-Whoever ticket, and vote a straight GOP ticket in November.

mdg above: "We," I'm fairly sure, refers to Democratic Florida legislators. But as George mentions above, "we" had plenty to do with it; "we" knew full well the likely penalties for moving the primary date up. I certainly hope we commenters here are representative of Dems everywhere losing all patience for Billary's political shenanigans crap. The two of them are putting their ambitions ahead of values, party, and country. What a total disgrace.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath on this one. There is NO CHANCE that the FL or MI delegates will be seated as is. NONE. With Obama's following and youth support, you'd have riots like '68 (I'd probably participate). It would be a worthless nomination for Hillary, she'd get destoyed by McCain.

If its still a close campaign, after PA we may have new Caucuses in those states. If Obama has secured the nomination (just needs to win 1 of 3 from TX, OH, PA-or even just lose shallowly) then the issue will just go away and they'll be seated like everyone else in a 'ceremonial' convention. There are really 3 possibilities:
1. If race still close, new Caucuses
2. If race still close, work 'deal' to seat them, like seating them based off the USA's popular vote total. (less likely)
3. If not close, they'll be seated.

Also, at least 1/2 of the Superdelegates will use thier 'vote' for whoever has the most pledged delegates. The Dems have done some pretty dumb things in the past, but they aren't dumb enough to throw an election away where they're the clear favorites.

The Clintons disgust me. Every time I feel like I could hold my nose and vote for HRC is she got the nomination, they pull some crash, selfish tactical stunt like this. I am done. I will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances.

What Bill and Hillary fail to realize is that Hillary is not going to be President. She'll either lose the nomination to Obama, or steal the nomination from him, thereby, losing the Presidency for the Dems. Democrats are not going to vote for the person who stole their hope and the ray of sunshine they finally see after living in fear and darkness for the past 7 years.

Not only will Hillary lose the Presidency, but Bill will forever tarnish his legacy and lose the respect of his party.

They really are a disgusting pair (coming from someone who voted for Bill twice). Bill's argument that the "Republican's set the date" is repugnant. We all know what happened and we all know that Hillary was all for the sanctions until she started losing.

Two time Clinton voter.

If Hillary wins the nomination by winning the most pledged delegates during the nomination process, fine, whatever, I'll vote for her against 'bombs away' McCain.

If backroom deals and the Clinton slime machine end up keeping Obama from the obtaining the nomination, however, I will simply write in Barack Obama on the Presidential ballot.

P.S. Any Super Delegate who crosses over to support the nominee with the fewest pledged delegates can likewise count on never seeing my support again.

These people are just disgusting - and the sad thing, is that has become the status quo in our political system. Rise up, America!

I would have thought that It would not come to this. But if any of the actions of the past few months are any indication, it has been an eye opening experience for me a a loyal Clinton supporter and democrat for almost twenty years. They will rip this party apart at whatever expense to maintain their power. I for one have had my eyes open and see them for what they are now. Sure they did some fantastic things in the 90's. But the ends do not justify the means as we have seen in the past 7 years of the Bush administration.

Also, BTW, the DNC also has a hand in this mess an d specifically Chairman Dean. He could have come up with a solution to this instead of the mess that we have. But that is what I have come to expect from the party "elders" of my party.

I've finally figured it out.

Bill Clinton is secretly working for Obama.

Boy, I couldn't agree more with all these comments.

Is it not obvious to anyone watching what the Clintons are up to? Is the quest of power so great that all thought of the greater good is left behind?

I will not support ANY candidate that pulls the levers of DC power to quash the will of the people. That includes any superdelegate that abuses their powerful votes to upend how the people vote.

I have no problem with letting the people of Florida and Michigan speak through a rescheduled caucus. They have every right to have their say and if they stick with the Clintons, so be it.

But we can't submit the people of those states to having to pay for a primary rather than having the party pay for a new caucus. I doubt the Republicans and Independents of those states would relish paying the cost of a primary vote simply because of an internal Democratic Party power struggle.

Reschedule a caucus. Let the people vote. Do not try to steal their votes through the previous unsanctioned (by the Clintons) vote.

Where was the outrage about disenfranchising these voters when he DNC issued its decision to punish Fl and MI by not seating their delegates at the National Convention.
The disenfranchisement argument is dishonest. If Hillary, or any other Democratic candidate or activist, was genuinely worried about disenfranchising the voters of FL or MI they would have argued to come up with a better system to punish FL and MI for moving up their primaries.
I'm a dyed in the wool democrat, so I'll still vote for the Democratic nominee even if it is Hillary because the thought of having another Republican president that supports torture in office is revolting. But, it won't make me feel good.

to Jay above @2:14 with possible solutions:
1. new caucus: you're talking about Florida - the most dysfunctional state when it comes to voting! We can't even punch holes in card stock! We vote over two full weeks! A caucus, at this point, would be chaos!
2. a deal to seat them if it's close: I say do what the RNC did: give half credit. That way all Florida voters' votes count the same, regardless of party. (Indies couldn't vote) Give half credit to super delegates too!
3. seat them (in the back of the auditiorium) if it's not close!

MDG: I agree that FL probably isn't the ideal local for a Caucus, however, no one is going to foot the bill for a primary. If the DNC does, thats great. Chaos in FL on Caucus day is better than Chaos in Denver on Convention day!

2. You can't just retroactively give them half credit. If you'd said ahead of time that you'd do what the GOP did and give half credit, that'd have been fine. But since HRC and BO both agreed ahead of time not to campaign and that the votes wouldn't count, there is no way you can count them as is.

3. Is the most likely scenario...I think after Obama wins WI and HI, the headlines of '10 in a ROW!' are going to be to much MO for her to overcome. He'll win TX or OH, and this thing will be over. Her own supporters are saying as much.

McCain and the rest of the repulicans are setting their hair on fire (he has been endorsed by Romney and endorsed CIA torture)and we can't get the Clinton's to realize for one second, it's not about them! He built the organization, staffed it. Strategized with it - never really over reaching but setting reasonable goals ie win Iowa and do well in NH etc...as opposed to, oh say - invade Iraq or completely overhaul healthcare. He is pragmatic about change, understands the true meaning of "it taking a village" or what it means to truly "build a coalition." He's built a coalition among a broad base of voters and he has cultivated the momentum. Never stepping foul (really) or on the throat of any one. He has proven that he was executive material.

I am worried that this all might be for naught. How many of the voters are pledging to abstain if she wins? Is it irresponsible to abstain if she wins (and let McCain win?). We are back to old-school politics if it's McCain/HRC - picking the lesser of two evils. How many baby-boom/Vietnam era presidents can this world take? Not many I fear.

It is OUTRAGEOUS for the titular head of the Democratic Party to be attacking other Democrats in a primary election. The Clintons are greedy hustlers who will stop at nothing, including fracturing the Democratic party, in their lust for power. They stand for nothing but their own ambition. If Hillary Clinton cannot win the nomination on her own she deserves to lose. If she wins the nomination in this fashion I, a registered Democrat my whole life, will not vote for President for the first time in my life. These two are the Juan and Evita Peron of American politics and I cannot wait for the party to recover from its unwarranted enchantment with them.

Jay: I'm with you! Hoping with all my heart that the momentum continues and the winner will be obvious to all, including The Clintons!

Don't Steal the Nomination

Stealing the nomination by seating the existing "non-delegates" from Florida or Michigan will not fly since many people, including me (white, moderate, age 60+) will stay home in November. Over-turning the elected delegates through the use of Superdelegates also will not fly.

The Democratic Party has always stood for fairness - if they take either of these actions, I will stop any additional funding of the DNC, the DCCC (House), and the DSCC (Senate).

As an Obama supporter, all I can say is, keep talking Bill, you're doing a great job.

Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Julian Bond... all so worried about the disenfranchisement of the voters of Florida and Michigan. Where was this concern when these awful decisions were being made? They could have said at the time that they had no intention of following up with their pledge to ignore those states, but then they wouldn't have had two nice big unopposed primaries to claim.

David Geffen was right. Those Clintons lie a little too easily.

The Clintons play dirty.

At the Washington State caucus they had bused in supporters from Oregon that were getting in the faces of Obama supporters. During our precinct meeting to decide how we would allocate our 4 delegates...we made mini-speeches to the undecideds to try to sway them, as soon as I mentioned Mark Penn's name (and his connection to Blackwater USA) they swarmed in, interupted the meeting between NEIGHBORS and screamed at me. When I asked that they be removed the local Democratic volunteers told me they would take care of it and did NOTHING (other than hang out with the Portland people, laugh and have a great chuckle about the attempted disenfranchisement.)

In the end...their tactics backfired (this one time) and the undecideds were so turned off by this that they and a Clinton supporter came to Obama's side.

I'm a registered voter of Florida and I want my vote to count towards the nominee. The US Constitution...for those who care to read it...does not make provisions regarding primaries...in fact...if you pay attention to constitutional lawyers...if the DNC refuses to count those votes or refuses to sit those delegates...the DNC will violate my constitutional right and the state of Michigan's voters' rights!! How's that for all of you Obama supporters!! Please do not state the same rhetorial BS as your candidate either....that he did not make his case in Florida!! Give me a break!! Thats insulting when everyone watches the news, reads the internet, reads the papers, and listens to talk radio. People know his issues...oopps his case (raising taxes to pay for a 10 year 210 billion economic package). You are the supporters who are the internet making crazy love songs for a presidential candidate. Yeah...that's a commander in chief!! Wake UP!! No substance. At least MLK offered real solutions...not prose rhetoric. Mccain will kick his junior, senator ass in the general election!! Bank on it!! Obama does not represent this democrat. Nothing he can do or say will get me to vote for him...if he is selected as the democratic candidate. I will exercise my right to sit this election out and watch Obama crumble. So think about this...voting for Obama is voting for Mccain. Mccain will win the general election if he runs against Obama. So enjoy this high while you can. What goes up...always comes down. Then what?

forget jfk forget mlk he must be jesus

Of course Mary ignores today's polling showing Obama beating McCain easily in Nevada, Colorado and New Hampshire - enough to win it all - but Clinton getting killed in NV and CO and tying in NH (not to mention Washington). Hillary Clinton will not beat John McCain in the general election.

As for FL, Bill Clinton is flat-out lying. The Republican legislature moved the vote to January 29, but the state legislature Democrats completely supported it. When told by the DNC that they needed to hold a separate primary later (as happens in many other states) the Florida Dems refused. They brought this on themselves. Clinton won the name-recognition contest in Florida.

What's sad for Florida and for Clinton is that if FL had actually followed the rules, their votes would have really mattered and Clinton would have almost certainly won a key state (though not by 17 points).

Sep 1, 2007 4:02 PM
The following is a statement by Clinton Campaign Manager Patti Solis Doyle.

"We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process.
And we believe the DNC’s rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role.
Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."

Voting order:

1. Obama
2. McCain
3. Everybody else in the world.
4. Hillary Clinton

I'm a african-american and a republican. I don't think that the press would put up with any republican doing half of what the Clintons do. Most democrats don't buy the Clinton's version of the truth. I hope they will stand up and take their party back from the Clintons. I hope Obama gets the nomination, because he's been playing by the rules. Bill and Hillary Clinton has been just "playing" the democratic party. He said when he was president, that "you get two for one."

Let's not lambaste the Clintons too harshly for wanting the votes in a state-party sanctioned deomcratic election to count. 2.3 million Democratic voters bothered to show up to the polls, where is the lack of integrity in wanting these voices heard? In my opinion, the dirty political win would be the one that occured because you threw out the vote in two of the largest states.

Count Florida and Michigan!

Let's not lambaste the Clintons too harshly for wanting the votes in a state-party sanctioned deomcratic election to count. 2.3 million Democratic voters bothered to show up to the polls, where is the lack of integrity in wanting these voices heard? In my opinion, the dirty political win would be the one that occured because you threw out the vote in two of the largest states.

Count Florida and Michigan!

I voted for Hillary in Florida and very proud I did!! Over 850,000 others jointed me!!

We could have voted for Obama or Edwards, they were on the ballot!!!

I will do any and everything possible for my VOTE TO COUNT!!

We in Florida know how it feels to be CHEATED at the poles!!

I read this and it makes me sad. All the Obama supporters would be screaming if Florida had the power to swing the nomination his way. If Obama wins the popular vote than so be it. He is a good candidate. If Hillary wins she too is a good candidate. This race is so much closer than anyone could have imagined. Because its so close ALL VOTES must be counted. Anything less is the real cheat. By not counting Florida and Michigan could cause Obama to win on a technicality. It's time to let the POPULAR vote for EVERY state do the talking not some BS rules on when people can vote.

ANd please remember. We are only trying to pick the person to run for president. If your guy or girl does not win. Voting for the republican is just plane stupid. How about you just punch the wall and break your hand, its the same.

The Florida bill was voted on by Democrats and Republicans and as noted not one person voted against it. Bill Clinton has totally mis-represented what actually happened. Now (March 7) Florida legislator Wasserman is openly stating the same bold faced lie when interviewed by Brit Hume on Fox News. What is wrong with the Florida Dems? If they didn't like any part of the bill they had the right to vote against it. The fact that they did not may reflect an intense desire to reform the Florida voting process which would be a good thing. However, as some Floridian Dems now argue, namely that Republicans effectively forced them to vote for the bill says one thing: THE FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATORS ARE GUTLESS AND SELF-SERVING!!!!!!!!!

I'm from Florida, and I think my vote should count--no matter what month the primary was in.
Regardless of who Floridians support, we should be counted. Anything less is un-American.