Crist And Granholm: Seat Those Delegates
FL Gov. Charlie Crist, a GOPer, joined with MI Gov. Jennifer Granholm, a Dem, in calling on their party chairmen today to resolve the matter of seating their respective state delegates.
"Gov. Granholm and I both believe that all delegates should be seated at the conventions," he said. " ... We must restore the rights of the more than 5M voters who voices have been silenced."
Crist, a John McCain backer, said it would be "unconscionable" not to allow the states' Dem delegates to vote at the party's Denver convention.
"It is wrong," he said. Granholm, we should note, is supporting Hillary Clinton.
This is lousy news for Barack Obama's campaign. Clinton, as we know, claimed victory out of MI and FL, though Obama wasn't on the ballot in the former and didn't campaign in the latter. The question is -- Could she win a rematch? Both states are predisposed to favor her. FL's seniors and Hispanic voters could give her a boost there. Meanwhile, MI, much like OH, has a large blue collar population.
Obama adviser David Axelrod said on a call today with reporters that he'd like to see the matter put to rest, but he didn't suggest a revote.
"This is an issue for the Democratic National Committee," he said. "We’ve abided by the rules. And we all signed on to those rules. Sen. Clinton has been trying to change the rules since right after the early primaries were over. But we’ll let the DNC resolve it. We’d love to see a resolution to that. And we’ll work with whatever that resolution is."
But Mark Penn, Clinton's strategist, said he believes the state's primaries were legit.
"We believe that the voters voted in Florida and Michigan," he said. "We advised our delegates that they should be seated at the convention. And that’s been our consistent position."
Serious trouble brewing for Howard Dean -- especially since it's possible neither candidate reaches the magic 2,025 delegate count before the convention. FL and MI might be the only solution.
(JENNIFER SKALKA)
*yawn*.. How about you guys follow the rules next time? It was VERY clear what the rules were, you just thought you were above them. Well guess what? You're not. Suck it up. It's your own fault you don't have any delegates.
Neither Hillary or Barack campaigned in Florida, but Obama did run TV ads there. And he chose to take his name of the ballot in Michigan, because it was clear Hillary was going to win.
Please don't suppress the voters in these states. The leglistature that moved the dates ahead is Republican controlled, so it is hardly the Dems fault.
If they seat these delegates as valid, then all the states will be moving up their primaries. The Iowa caucus for 2012 will begin next week. Granholm and Crist. Dumb and dumber
The Republicans broke the rules as well, but I don't see them being punished for it. Rules are made to be broken. The DNC are going to cause huge problems for the Democrat party here.
Dems need to win Michigan and Florida in the general election, and this is unlikely to happen if you suppress their votes now and leave them out of the nomination process.
www.seatourdelegates.com
The Florida Democratic Party Central Committee voted unanimously to hold the primary in January fully aware of the consequences. They could have held a primary at another day or held a caucus... they didn't have to do it, they chose to. You break the rules, you suffer the consequences.
The whole nomination process needs to be revised. They should rotate the states each year, so that different states can hold their primaries first each year. In the current system, the same states miss out on the process every year.
The officials in Florida and Michigan (who moved the dates ahead) should be punished, NOT the voters.
"Rules were made to be broken"?? Well, that certainly explains a lot about the Clinton candidacy.
Do not disenfranchise voters. Moving the date ahead wasn't their idea. I say, give the DNC a fine for breaking rules, but don't suppress votes.
""Rules were made to be broken"?? Well, that certainly explains a lot about the Clinton candidacy."
Really? Please list some examples where Clinton has broken any rules throughout this campaign. Obama ran ads in Florida, she did not. She only went down there AFTER she had won to thank the voters.
She didn't agree to exclude the delegates from being seated at the convention, she agreed to not compaign in Michigan and Florida, and she kept her promise. It was made clear in both Michigan and Florida that the delegates would end up being seated, which is what lead to record turn-outs in both states. Meanwhile, the Obama camp is trying to suppress their voices. If he gets the nomination he has zero chance of winning either state.
How about this as a proposition:
For Florida, the results were semi-legitimate (Tim, Obama ran an ad on a national station that happened to be picked up in FL, while Clinton held multiple fundraisers in FL the week before the primary. Don't tell me either is worse than the other.) Because both Clinton and Obama were on the ballot, I suggest that we use the vote count that took place. However, in order to prevent this sort of thing in the future, we should penalize Florida; I would suggest removing 30-40% of their pledged delegates (and all the superdelegates, since many of them were the ones that made the decision to move the primary up). That is actually less than the GOP penalized FL and the other states that went early, so it would be more acceptable to the party of inclusion.
Michigan, since Obama was not on the ballot, essentially has to hold another primary or a caucus. Had everyone been on the ballot, I would suggest the same as Florida. We should still penalize MI's delagates the same way as FL, in order to discourage this sort of activity in the future.
Thoughts?
"We advised our delegates that they should be seated at the convention. And that’s been our consistent position."
Well, that's a flat out lie. HRC was all about sticking by the rules once upon a time -- until Iowa, NH and South Carolina were done. She stated that Michigan's primary would not count, so it didn't matter that she left her name on the ballot. Then she changed her mind when it was to her political benefit.
Lie. Liar. The shoe fits.
The Republicans weren't stupid enough to punish the states with NO delegates. They cut the number in half. That's a punishment but doesn't completely disenfranchise the people. Also, the winner-take-all method of the majority of states for the Republican party has prevented the mess the Democrats are now in. This is a cautionary tale for those who would meddle with the electoral college in presidential elections. Unforeseen consequences. 50 states replaying the 2000 Florida election if any contest is a close one. It would be a real mess.
I live in FL. I voted. My wife voted. My parents voted. My in-laws voted. Most of my friends voted. Seat our delegates. Florida's Democrats did not move up the primary. It was done by Florida's Republican Leglislature. If you don't seat Florida's Democrats then I promise you that McCain will win Florida in November. In case you all forgot, FL has 27 electorial votes. That's 10% of what is needed to in the White House. Michigan has 17. Seat Florida's Democrats. If you don't many Floridians, including me, won't vote in November 2008.