Sunday Snapshot -- Making Political Hay-den?

The release of CIA torture memos and Pres. Obama's decision not to prosecute agents for harsh interrogation techniques dominated the Sunday shows. Ex-CIA Dir. Michael Hayden spoke about the issue during an appearance on "Fox News Sunday."

Fox's Wallace: "The White House says that four former CIA directors, including you, all advised against the release of these so-called torture memos. Specifically, what were you asked and what did you say?"

Hayden: "I wasn't asked. We weren't asked. We were informed as a courtesy by the agency that this was a pending decision, and all of us self-initiated, voluntarily, to call the White House and express our views. I should add, too, that the current director, Director [Leon] Panetta, shared our views."

More Hayden: "If you look at the documents that have been made public, it says top secret at the top. The definition of top secret is information which, if revealed, would cause grave harm to U.S. security."

After the jump, the Summit of Americas, Obama's first 90 days and the economy.

(KATHERINE LEHR)

Hayden, on who he spoke to at the WH: "I called the White House counsel, the national security adviser, the deputy national security adviser. ... I marshaled the arguments as to why I thought it would make America less safe."

Hayden, on the Obama admin. arguing technique information has been in the press already: "There's a difference of leaks, and rumors, and rumors of this and that, and going out there and defining in an absolutely clear way what the limits are. ... I mean, that doesn't make sense on its face."

More Hayden: "I think that teaching our enemies our outer limits, by taking techniques off the table, we have made it more difficult in a whole host of circumstances I can imagine, more difficult for CIA officers to defend the nation."

Hayden, on WH press sec. Robert Gibbs saying the use of those techniques in the view of the world have made the U.S. less safe: "Mr. Gibbs' comments bring another reality fully in front of us. It's what I'll call, without meaning any irreverence to anybody, a really inconvenient truth. ... The facts of the case are that the use of these techniques against these terrorists made us safer. It really did work."

More Hayden: "If the nation says, 'Don't do it,' the CIA won't do it. The honorable position has to be, 'Even though these techniques worked, I don't want you to do that.' That takes courage. The other sentence doesn't."

Hayden, asked if he's satisfied that waterboarding is not torture: "I'm satisfied that the Justice Department, in a series of opinions -- '02, '03, '05 -- said that it was not. ... But keep in mind, waterboarding had not been using since the spring of 2003."

Wallace: "President Obama says there will be no prosecution of CIA officers who relied on these memos. Is that the end of it, or do you expect something further in terms of congressional investigations and more lawsuits?"

Hayden: "Oh, God, no, it's not the end of it. If you look at the letters that Director Panetta and Director Blair put out to the intelligence community workforce, near the end of both letters they make it very clear -- I mean, literally, explicitly say -- this is not the end of it. In fact, they suggest it's just the beginning. There will be more revelations. There will be more commissions. There will be more investigations. And this to an agency, again, I repeat, that is at war and is on the front lines defending America" (4/19).

THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS

Meanwhile, Obama admin. officials made the rounds to defend Obama's actions.

WH CoS Rahm Emanuel: "We've enhanced America's image abroad. These were tools used by terrorists, propaganda tools, to recruit new terrorists. And the fact is, having changed America's image does have an impact on our security and safety and makes us stronger."

Emanuel, on the argument the memos give terrorists a roadmap on how to resist: "One of the reasons the president was willing to let this information out was that already the information was out. So if they're saying that you basically have exposed something, it's been written. Go get the New York Review of Books. It's there."

ABC's Stephanopoulos: "The president has ruled out prosecutions for CIA officials who believed they were following the law. Does he believe that the officials who devised the policies should be immune from prosecution?"

Emanuel: "He believes that they should not be prosecuted either. ... I would really recommend people look at the full statement -- not the letter, the statement -- in that second paragraph, 'this is not a time for retribution.' ... We have a lot to do to protect America. What people need to know, this practice and technique, we don't use anymore. He banned it" ("This Week," ABC, 4/19).

WH sr. adviser David Axelrod: "The CIA may believe that al-Qaeda doesn't read the New York Review of Books, but I suspect they know what's going on. The truth is that, because these were in the public domain, because even the last administration has revealed the most serious aspects of this, and because the president has banned these techniques, there was no legal rationale for keeping them classified. And so the president acted" ("Face the Nation," CBS, 4/19).

Among the other reaction from Dems:

DHS Sec. Janet Napolitano: "The release of them is very consistent with what President Obama said during the campaign and how he is conducting his government. It's about transparency. It's about accountability. And he released them" ("State of the Union," CNN, 4/19).

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO), on five CIA Dirs. all opposing the release of these documents: "I think transparency is not something that comes easily to CIA directors. But it's very important to this president. ... In the long run, clearing the air and saying to the rest of the world that we're going to return to a place where setting a better example as to what democracy and the rule of law means" ("Fox News Sunday," 4/19).

IT'S NOT A MEMO, IT'S A MISSION STATEMENT

GOPers agreed the release of the memos has made the U.S. less safe.

House Min. Leader John Boehner: "The release of these memos is dangerous, and I agree with what Leon Panetta had to say, when he made it clear that he thought that this would hamper our ability to get information from terrorists and get other countries to work with us" ("This Week," ABC, 4/19).

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC): "I'm concerned that these memos are going to chill receiving input in the future by a president and has overly informed our enemies of the things that may await them, but the idea of waterboarding being legal is certainly not the case anymore, and I always thought it was a procedure that would come back to haunt the nation. And quite frankly, it has. ... We don't want to be transparent to al-Qaeda" ("Fox News Sunday," 4/19).

Sen. John Ensign (R-NV): "If we ever return to those policies, one is that they can train against them now. ... I mean, do we really think that having advanced interrogation techniques is something that we don't want to use if we find Osama bin Laden?"

More Ensign: "Secondly, what the president has done is he has sent kind of a fear throughout the intelligence community that they could be prosecuted in the future. And that is exactly the kind of fear that paralyzed the intelligence community prior to September 11th. So I think America is less safe because of the release of these memos. This was absolutely the wrong policy for the Obama administration to put out" ("State of the Union," CNN, 4/19).

HAVANA NIGHTS

The other big topic was Obama's role in the Summit of the Americas. Axelrod was asked about this during his appearance on "Face the Nation."

CBS' Smith: "To see this smiling picture with President Obama and Hugo Chavez in this handshake, and both with these big, broad smiles, what message do you think that sends?"

Axelrod: "I'm not concerned about the message that it sends. I'm concerned about what flows from it. Words and handshakes are nice, but they're not enough."

More Axelrod: "I think this president has engaged the people of the world, the constituencies of these leaders, and the leaders are now responding. Easy anti-Americanism is no longer a great political tactic in their countries, and I think that's one of the early accomplishments of this presidency."

Smith: "The same question again applies to Cuba. What does Cuba have to put on the table to say we actually are interested in having more normal relations or something close to normal?"

Axelrod: "As you know, Mr. Castro made an interesting speech in which he said everything was on the table. ... He also said something interesting. He said we may not have been right about some of our assumptions, which is the first time we've heard that from the Cubans. So if all of that pans out, it's an encouraging development."

Axelrod, asked if there's any thought in the WH now to lifting the embargo: "We're a long way from that."

Axelrod, asked if Obama has any intention of reinstating the assault weapons ban: "The question is, is there the consensus and the ability, given the rules of the Congress and the realities of the Congress, to move that in the midst of everything else that we have to do? ... There are many things we can do apart from that that can make a difference."

Axelrod, asked if the WH is afraid of the NRA: "Not at all" (CBS, 4/19).

NEC Chair Larry Summers was on "Meet the Press," where he was asked what circumstances Obama would lift the 47-year-old embargo on Cuba.

Summers: "That's way down the road, and it's going to depend on what Cuba does going forward. ... Cuba's known what it needs to do for a very long time and it's up to them in terms of their policies, their democratization, all of the steps that they can take."

Summers, on the economic case for lifting the embargo: "Obviously it's desirable to be able to trade in as many directions as possible. But fundamentally this is an issue that's going to get decided on the basis of Cuba's behavior. ... And it's about really whether they want to rejoin the community of nations in Latin America or not. ... The president's decisions are really going to be grounded in what's best for the United States."

Summers, on the impressions Obama took took away from his short encounter with Chavez: "I'm not able to speak for the president on that, but I will say this. You know, if you look at the data on many of these countries in many parts of the world, and certainly in Latin America as well, the president is the most popular political leader in the world. He's more popular in many countries than their own head of government. And so it's perhaps understandable that political figures want to bond with him, want to connect with him."

More Summers: "And there's something universal about his message of economic renewal, his message of getting the economy growing again, his message of wanting to have a different kind of economic expansion, one whose benefits are more widely shared, one that's less based on bubbles in financial markets. ... And that's why it seems to have such a resonance around the world" (NBC, 4/19).

OUR WORD IS OUR WEAPON

Pols weighed in on the U.S. relations with Venezuela and Cuba:

Ensign, on Chavez: "This is a person who is one of the most anti-American leaders in the entire world. He is a brutal dictator. Human rights violations are very, very prevalent in Venezuela. ... When you're talking about the prestige of the United States and the presidency of the United States, you have to be careful who you're seeing joking around with. And I think it was irresponsible for the president to be seen kind of laughing and joking with Hugo Chavez."

Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), in response: "Look what the president is doing here at the Summit of the Americas. He is reaching out to all of these countries, just like he did at the G-20, I think, very effectively. ... And all the president did was shake his hand, just like George Bush. ... At least we are talking to our enemies. It's sure a lot better way to go than we did in the last eight years" ("State of the Union," CNN, 4/19).

Graham, asked how the U.S. should proceed with Cuba: "'Release the prisoners and we'll talk to you.' ... Put up or shut up."

McCaskill, in response: "I think we're taking the right steps, and I think the ball is now clearly in Cuba's court. They need to respond and say what they're willing to do. I agree with the sentiments expressed by Lindsey. I must also say that opening up the market of Cuba to Missouri's farmers is very important to this United States senator. ... But there clearly needs to be more done on the part of Cuba to send the right signal to America that they're willing to engage as a trade partner or to go any further down this line of normalizing our relationship" ("Fox News Sunday," 4/19).

And Napolitano was on "State of the Union" to talk about Obama's time in Mexico, where she was asked if reinstating the ban on assault weapons would help reduce the violence with the drug cartels.

Napolitano: "I'm skeptical that it would, in part because there are large stockpiles of those assault weapons already now in Mexico. ... That's a congressional action which, as you know, would be very controversial and we need to act now. ... It is illegal to export arms from the United States into Mexico. And that is where we're going to focus" (CNN, 4/19).

PA Gov. Ed Rendell (D) and NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre also weighed in on the ban during a joint appearance on "Face the Nation."

Rendell: "I agree with the president's decision, right now with the economy being as challenged as it is, with healthcare on the table, this is not the time to bring this issue up. But I think it has to be brought up in the near future, because every police organization in this country supports -- virtually every one supports banning assault weapons."

LaPierre, in response: "The rank-and-file cops know this is a totally phony issue. And that's why Congress doesn't want to deal with it again. ... They're trying to piggyback this whole phony issue on the back of the tragedy in Mexico. I challenge the president of the United States and the media to prove that 90 percent of the guns used by the drug cartels are being smuggled" (CBS, 4/19).

THE ROAD TO VICTORY

During an appearance on "This Week," Emanuel was asked to evaluate Obama's first 90 days.

Stephanopoulos: "When you look at ... what the president has done in his first 90 days, achieved a lot of his major initiatives, as you pointed out, but with very little Republican support. ... To get healthcare, energy, regulatory reform, the president is going to need Republican votes. What adjustments is he willing to make to get them?"

Emanuel: "Well, you just said adjustments. ... We set the goals. ... Now, he's open to different roads to get there. ... When you're the party of no; when you're the party of never; when you're the party of no new ideas, that's not constructive. So my recommendation is, we'll work with people of all sides' ideology to get things done. ... The challenge will be, will the Republicans come to the table with constructive ideas?"

Emanuel, asked if Obama will consider taxing employer benefits as a way to pay for health care: "He has said he opposed that, as he said in the campaign. And that's what he believes, and believes is, before you get there, you have got to address the priorities."

Stephanopoulos: "So he won't sign a bill that includes that?"

Emanuel: "I'm not going to do any absolutes on your show. That's not my right to do that."

Emanuel, on energy policy: "At the end of this first year of Congress, there will be an energy bill on the president's desk."

Stephanopoulos: "That includes cap-and-trade?"

Emanuel: "Our goal is to get that done. We will see. You're asking me right before the legislative process starts to make that prediction. ... The challenge now is, rather than to criticize and rather than say no, rather than to say never, is to provide ideas. And that has yet to happen from the other side."

Emanuel, asked how confident he is that the banks will not need more money from Congress: "I haven't seen the stress test yet. What we do know is, in the first quarter, banks and the financial institutions, the major 19, are doing better. ... But that doesn't take away that some are going to need resources. We believe we have those resources available in the government as the final backstop to make sure that the 19 are financially viable and effective."

Stephanopoulos: "Without coming back to Congress?"

Emanuel: "Right. ... I believe we won't, but I haven't seen the stress tests. ... I want to put a cautionary note there. ... I do believe we have the resources to handle what the results will be" (ABC, 4/19).

MAN WITH A PLAN

Boehner appeared on "This Week" to talk policy. More from that interview:

Boehner, asked if GOPers will support Obama's health care plan: "We haven't seen the president's plan as yet. I can tell you what our plan is beginning to look like and the types of things that we will oppose."

Boehner, asked what the GOP answer to climate change is: "All of the above energy strategy from last year continues to be the right approach on energy. ... It's pretty clear that if we don't work with other industrialized nations around the world, what's going to happen is that we're going
to ship millions of American jobs overseas. We have to deal with this in a responsible way."

Stephanopoulos: "It sounds like from what you're saying that you don't believe that Republicans need to come up with a plan to control carbon emissions? You're suggesting it's not that big of a problem, even though the scientific consensus is that it has contributed to the climate change."

Boehner: "I think it is an issue. ... I think everyone in America is looking for the proper answer. We don't want to raise taxes, $1.5 to $2 trillion like the administration is proposing, and we don't want to ship millions of American jobs overseas. And so we've got to find ways to work toward this solution to this problem without risking the future for our kids and grandkids."

Stephanopoulos: "So you are committed to coming up with a plan?"

Boehner: "I think you'll see a plan from us. Just like you've seen a plan from us on the stimulus bill and a better plan on the budget" (ABC, 4/19).

A THREE-STEP PROGRAM

Summers also spoke about the state of the U.S. economy during his apperance on "Meet the Press."

Summers, asked if he's worried that the recovery efforts on the part of the admin. are helping Wall Street and not Main Street: "No, not really. ... I can assure you that the focus of everything this administration is doing is on the needs of the overall economy, is on the needs of getting a recovery well established."

NBC's Gregory, on Obama saying there's glimmers of hope in the economy: "If you're seeing any easing in the economy or an easing of the recession, is that because the government is propping the economy up? Or do you see elements of recovery that are self-sustaining?"

Summers: "I think you've got to give the government credit, some credit for what's happened, but these have the potential to build into something that's self-sustaining. That's certainly not something that's been established to this point, and that's why we're going to need to maintain strong policies for quite some time to come."

Gregory: "You have some banks who are saying, 'Look, we're in pretty healthy shape here. We want to give back this bailout money. We don't want the taxpayers' money.' And the administration has appeared to say, 'Hey, not so fast.' Wouldn't that be a good thing?"

Summers: "The administration's been, I think, consistent and clear in taking what I would guess almost everybody would agree is the right position. We want to be out of the financial system. We want people to be paying back the government. But we don't want people to be paying back the government in ways that will put themselves right back in trouble and leaving themselves with inadequate capital."

Gregory: "I wonder if you would describe your goals for the capitalist system that emerges out of this financial crisis, out of this recession. How do things change? Do individuals spend less and save more? Does this government act differently?"

Summers: "We're going to need a less leveraged economy. That means three things. Means a much better regulated financial system, and that's what the president is already hard at work on with Chairman Frank in the House, with Chairman Dodd in the Senate. Means that individuals are going to have to save more. ... And third, we're going to need a government that ultimately gets back to the kind of place we had in the 1990s, where it's a contributor of savings to the economy rather than a drain" (NBC, 4/19).

ROUNDTABLE ROUNDUP

The "Fox News Sunday" roundtable discussed tea parties and the CIA memos.

NPR's Liasson, on the CIA memos: "One thing that I am struck by is why, especially today, they have no one from the military intelligence community in the administration coming forward to explain this decision."

Weekly Standard's Kristol, in response: "To release these memos and to create what's now going to be weeks, months, years of lawsuits and investigations -- I mean, it's really a disgrace to those ... who, in good faith, tried to and, I think, did defend this country. I really cannot see what the defense is for releasing the memos. And that's why none of them is out here. That's why the people who are defending this today are political operatives, not national security officials in the Obama administration" (4/19).

The "State of the Union" roundtable discussed Summit of the Americas and the economy.

Ex-WH adviser David Gergen, on Obama shaking hands with Chavez: "Most political advisers would tell the president, you know, it's fine to shake hands, hold the smiles. This sort of big embrace, one can remember so well Jimmy Carter giving a kiss on the cheek to a Soviet leader, Mr. Brezhnev, and he got just a ton of criticism for that and it became in effect a metaphor for his presidency."

Weekly Standard's Hayes: "The actions behind the pictures are unsettling, too. I mean, for instance, not responding after Daniel Ortega went on this tirade for nearly an hour about the United States and its history, you know, what he says is the checkered history of the region. Barack Obama then didn't really respond except to say, well, I'm glad you didn't blame me for this. Some kind of a bigger defense was more appropriate, I think, given the kinds of claims that were made" (CNN, 4/19).

The "Meet the Press" roundtable discussed tea parties, the economy and the CIA memos.

Ex-House Maj. Leader Dick Armey (R-TX), on Obama releasing the memos: "Clearly it was a political act, and I think one thing I would hope that President Obama could finally get to the point where he can put George Bush away. He's retired, his time is over. ... But as a strategic decision with respect to the security of the United States it was, frankly, a grotesquely irresponsible move and it's going to diminish our ability to maintain better security."

DLC Chair/ex-Rep. Rep. Harold Ford, Jr. (D-TN): "After September the 11th, we asked men and women in this country serving in our military and our intelligence agencies to go out and find bad guys. I'm always a little hesitant afterwards when we try to judge the kinds of things they did. That being said, we are America and we got to live up to a certain standard, and I think what the president did was strike the right balance in how they went about dealing with this" (NBC, 4/19).

Note: A transcript of the "This Week" roundtable was not available at time of publication.