As usual, Rep Wamp speaks from lack of knowledge.

Alone among the states, Texas joined the Union through a treaty. That treaty allows Texas to withdraw upon certain circumstances. Tennessee does not have such a treaty.

Please do, the revenue sucking red states would not be missed and think how we could cut our taxes if we didn't have to subsidize all the red states.

PLEASE, red states cecede! This would immediately raise the median IQ of the remaining states in the Union by at least 40 points!

It'd be cheaper for us 'liberal' states if Texas and the tax burden red southern states (whose conservatives claim to show fiscal responsiblity) DID secede. Lose the welfare states, let them wallow in their own destitution, and things would start looking up for us in the Northeast. Good riddance, and take the Baptists with you.

No need to secede, just send all blacks back to Africa, beginning with Obama.

You mean the states with the highest levels of poverty, welfare and unemployment want out of the Union?

Sounds good to this blue-stater. If only you would, then I could keep ore of my money instead pf spending my hard-earned tax dollars on all that Red State entitlement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Poverty_Rates.svg

If blue statists think it would better for everyone if the reds secede, why don't you just expel the red states? If 1 state has the right to "secede" from a Union of 50, why can't 49 "secede," which is the same thing in effect as expulsion. But having formed our Union, we are all stuck with one another. A better answer for secessionistas is this: elect a majority to Congress and take back the White House, so you can get rid of all the nonsense being enacted nowadays. Congressional majorities with a sympathetic president can do wonders! No reason to get out, just persuade your countrymen to do the right thing. It's a whole lot easier than threatening war between brother states.

its a great thought,but tennessee could not survive without the federal government,noone to care for the roads and parks, medicare,social securityclose all us government offices and military bases va hospitals money for schools etc. tn is one of many states in the south thats gets more back in federal funds than they pay in.yes secede.and i suspect candide father will be in africa if his idea is put in play.so many other perks for the rest of the country without tn.sens alexander and croker gone rep wamp and blackburn gone.im liking this more and more.

Personally our country is so hopelessly divided it would be best of we split. Let the GOP have TX, OK, AK, MS, LA, GA, AL, FL, SC, NC, TN, KY, VA and WVA. the rest will remain as is. All GOPers can move to these states and vice versa. They can be governed by their beloved GOP and we we will create a new progressive party (no Blue Dog Dems allowed). It would be much more peachful if we split - it is evident we cannot reconcile our differences and we are torturing each other. I think this is a very civil way of cooperating and getting what we each want.

Please leave the union. Take Texas and the rest of the southern states with you. You won't be missed and good luck (not).

Only a bunch of wimps would vote for a monstrously expensive "heath" bill pushed by a cigarette smoking third world politician. So not surprising that some would like to leave.

You idiots want the South to secede? I hope we do. With all the refining capacity concentrated in the South, I'd love to watch your Little House on the Prairie lifestyle. Horse and buggy. Yep.

Man, the education level of libtards is amazingly lacking.

FRANK writes the following "As usual, Rep Wamp speaks from lack of knowledge.

Alone among the states, Texas joined the Union through a treaty. That treaty allows Texas to withdraw upon certain circumstances. Tennessee does not have such a treaty."
frank
--------------------------------------------------Well frank, that makes two of you. Having lived in that god awful intellectually vapid state for seven years, I can attest that you got that one wrong. It is MAYBE possible to argue that the entry of Texas allowed seccession, but most constitutional scholars would disagree. It is a moot issue in any case. Those agreements - the so called 'Texas Protocols' were wiped off the books as a condition for Texas to re-enter the Union after the Civil War. You know, the one where the big bad red states got their asses kicked?

The United States has long outlived its usefulness. The "union" should have been dissolved long ago. You want to secede? Don't let the door hit you on the way out!!!! It is time to end this charade. The only thing the United States have in common is that they are all subject to the same tyranny of the federal government, that they are all funding illegal wars, illegal laws, and are all subject to the whims of the ruling criminal political class. Secession is the peaceful option. END IT NOW.

I love how conservatives think SECESSION is some kind of threat. GO AHEAD. MAKE MY DAY.

And yet another Rhodes scholar 'Gman' writes=="You idiots want the South to secede? I hope we do. With all the refining capacity concentrated in the South, I'd love to watch your Little House on the Prairie lifestyle. Horse and buggy. Yep.
Man, the education level of libtards is amazingly lacking."
gman | July 23, 2010 3:53 PM
-------------------------------------------------
If we assume your absurd argument has any merit, what will you do when the engineers - nearly all of whom were educated in the blue states ( MIT, Cal. Poly, the Ivy's,) flee for home? Refining oil is not that difficult - but something tells me the blue states would move to develop other energy sources. Please leave the Union. Everything bad about this country has its roots in the red states. DRILL BABY DRILL !! Dumb ass rednecks. LEAVE !!

Personally, I was somewhat conflicted on HCR. But if that's all we need to do to get these people to leave the country, well, you can count on my support. It's about time these people took their own advice. They do not love this country. They should leave it.

Zack Womp and Rick Perry (who stands a very good chance of being defeated in the upcoming election) are both morons preying on the ignorance of some of the American voters. Anyone falling for the secession talk needs to do a little research - it's ignorance based, too bad some are dim enough to fall for it. But then again, many of these are probably the same ones falling for the nonsensical birther conspiracy. Stupidity reigns in the world of republicanism and the lemmings just keep lining up for more.

Please let the red states secede. Just imagine how sweet it will be for them when they are free of the evil oppressive hand of government forcing on them schools and libraries and parks and roads, airports, hospitals and social security. What a great and happy world it will be when all that is gone forever and BP and Exxon and Clean Coal and Walmart and the NRA are running things like God wants them to. Let freedom ring!

Secede???

Really?

South Carolina too?

Let them go this time. The United States of Canada works for me.

Secede? That's treason plain and simple.

"It'd be cheaper for us 'liberal' states if Texas and the tax burden red southern states (whose conservatives claim to show fiscal responsiblity) DID secede. Lose the welfare states, let them wallow in their own destitution, and things would start looking up for us in the Northeast. Good riddance, and take the Baptists with you.

Jamie in NY | July 23, 2010 3:09 PM"

Actually, since most of the conservative states are economically better off (i.e. Texas, South Dakota, Kentucky, etc.), what would happen would be John Carpenter's 'Escape from New York', only on a much more left-wing state scale.

please zach wamp, please do take a hike, and take your like-minded nimrods with you (and is your name really zach wamp?)

Imagine living in a country where the vast majority of citizens believe in evolution and climate change (science!), where health-care is affordable and accessible to all, where excellent childcare is available to families, where efficient, reliable, and subsidized public transit is the norm, where the social safety net ensures that children are never hungry or homeless, where religious and ethnic diversity is celebrated, where political campaigns are all publicly-funded and politicians are actually responsive to their (human) constituencies... a country that is the most innovative in all the world - home to the best universities, the most advanced technologies, the most prized scientists and mathematicians, unrivaled medicine and medical care, etc... Yes, it's possible. Yes, it may be expensive, but I'd pay for it all...

So please secede...no war necessary.. and take all the red states with you.

We already fought a war over this secession issue and the states that did secede lost. Texas, the only state admitted by treaty, joined in the loosing side and when Texas was readmited to the union that abrogated that treaty. Texas cannot leave the union any more then anyone else can, even as much as some would like.

Everyone please email this treasonous idiot and tell him you are going to support his opponent--we dont need anymore stupid--tell him to go live in South Carolina

If he calls for it publicly, we should throw him in jail.

Whereas the states entered into a voluntary compact with each other to form a national government, and enumerate the parameters within which it shall operate. (Remember Virginia and Rhode Island ratified with the contingency that they could remove themselves if they desired).

Whereas there is no language in the voluntary federal compact that prohibits any of the states from leaving at will.

Then it doesn't matter what some hostile national government in D.C. has to say.

We have as much respect for your opinion as you do for ours.

And to those who think that the War to crush Southern Independence settled it for good:

If I say the sky is blue, and you argue that it is red... then you murder my sons, rape my wife and daughters, burn my house down, and steal my gold... it does not make you correct.

"The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself, though it may be at another time and in another form." ~Jefferson Davis, Confederate Hero, Statesman, and President

@ janet wright...

you know sadly...that's and i really do say this with regret...that's really not a bad idea...i would either pick Cali or New York...:)

watching them fight is like watching a bad marriage forced to live with one other on the reality tube! lol!

So the Third World toilet we call the South is talking about secession again? That's fine with us. They can all piss off. We made a huge mistake forcing them to stick around last time. Sure it was fun burning Georgia, but dealing with the ignorant bible-thumpers has turned out to be far more trouble than it was worth. The only drawback to them starting their own country would be that the backwards, toxic thousand mile long theocratic trailer park they would create would be sure to bring our property value down.

This will never happen. Also you people make me SICK!!

But when you think about it...it has already happened with the two parties anyway...the tea party and the blue dogs would go to the GOP country?
lol!

@Ricky....just joking! lol....we all know this would never happen... :)

My, my, my...quite a batch of Tories prevalent here tonight, and expressing such rancor and vitriol merely because some Americans would prefer to, if necessary, die on their feet as free people than to live on their knees under the tyranny of Obama and his blind followers.

Yessiree, he promised "hope and change," but he never intended that slogan to apply to everyone -- only those who wanted Nanny Gov't to suckle them cradle-to-grave. What a bunch of whiney wimpy entitlement-demanding lazy asses (as in libs/Dems/"progressives").

It does appear that we could be getting close to another uncivil war. But you brought it on, libs, by electing a Marxist Socialist who is determined to destroy our economy and rebrand our country "Amerika".

He will not accomplish that without one helluva fight, and if "secede" is part of the arsenal to fight him, then so be it!

Fortunately, that will likely be avoided by the outcomes of elections in November and in 2012. This time, we'll do it Right (pardon the pun).

Wamp is blissfully ignorant apparently of the irony of a member of the part of Lincoln threatening to invoke secession.

As for the rest out there following him...the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution sets the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land. Lots of legal cases (Texas v. White, the Prize Cases, etc) have put secession to rest as unconstitutional rebellion, not to mention that little dust-up back in the 1860's that Wamp apparently doesn't recall.

Oh please, please secede. It would rid of us of a burden state. I vote yes

PLEASE, please, PLEASE leave the Union and you can support your OWN disability, Medicare, Social Security, transportation (airway, roads), Safe drinking water/air (EPA), Safe food and drugs(FDA), Printing money, welfare and oh, military defense (USAF, Army, Marines, Coast Guard & Navy) and funds alloted for distribution during catastrophic emergencies such as hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, Guaranteed Student Loans, etc. costs ..... on your own. Good luck with that.

Simple question for "reds" or "blues" who say a state can secede: if a state has a right to "secede" (withdraw) from the Union, do the other states have a right to "expel" (throw out) a state from the Union?

One less red state for the northeast to support. Buh-bye!

THE PROBLEM WITH LIBERALISM IS EVENTUALLY YOU RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES MONEY!

As long as all the illegal immigrants go north to the "great blue states" I'M FOR IT!

bye,bye train leaves todat

So the HCR is a socialist plot by a third world politician to rebrand the country as Amerika? And many patriot teabaggers are rising up angry prepared to die as free men and woman rather than be subjected to such indignity. And your concept of freedom as the Conservatives have attempted to define it since Reagan? Endless war (pick 'em). War profiteering at the highest levels of government (Halliburton, Bechtel). Massive deficit spending (Reagan, Bush, Bush II). Back door deals with terrorists/Constitutional abrogation (Iran-Contra). Massive tax breaks for energy companies (again, pick 'em). Destruction of the middle class (off-shoring). Class warfare (Bush tax cuts). Use of propaganda (Run up to the Iraq War, for example). Federal intrusion into medical privacy matters (abortion/Schiavo case). Federal intrusion into scientific matters (global warming/evolution). Theocracy. Race baiting (Reagan in Montgomery Alabama to Sherrod). Boosting foreign control of media (Australian billionaire and Saudi prince using Fox for propaganda).

I could go on.

Teabaggers, this is the "freedom" you find so endearing?

"It does appear that we could be getting close to another uncivil war."

LOL. Who the heck would go to war to KEEP the free-loading theocratic Republican welfare states in the Union?

well i always knew the south would raise again ,and iam glad i move here to sc ,we have to stand for our rights and freedom . thats what this country was founded on

Secession, if it happened again as during the civil war, would be far different this time.

1. Most of the oil resources and refineries the northern states depend upon are located in the south, so it would cripple transportation in the north.

2. A significant number of western states AZ, NM, Southern half of California, LV, UT, etc. would most likely go with the south this time, as there cultural values have grown more conservative.

3. TN has Oak Ridge and most of the nations nuclear arsenal and nuclear weapons manufacturing capability.

4.Also, factor in the most secretive military facilities all being located in south western states.

5. The bulk of science research and manufacturing has since the 1960s relocated to the south, with the most advanced engineering being located now with NASA in FL and TX and JPL all in southern states. Those southern hubs also control the bulk of the satellite technology which gives the US as it is it's military superiority.

6. The bulk of manufacturing in this country is now located in the south.

7. They would lose the conservative farming states which provide the bulk of the nations food resources.

So, if Secession happened, over-nite the union states would find themselves down at third world nation status, experiencing shortages in every area of life and highly dependent for the bulk of their resources on a foreign super power sitting on their southern border.

The US federal government has overstepped it bounds, in going beyond what the Constitution allows. Any powers not specified in the US Constitution fall to the states. And it is not treason for the states to secede as each state voluntarily chose to be part of the union in the first place. The US is 50 states (nations) that chose to cede their power to a central, federal government, on the condition that it serves their best interests. When it fails to do so they secede that power back unto themselves.

Fortunately, we still have elections to correct the government when checks and balances need to be restored.

Both the comments of Perry and the statement by Wamp are an anathema to the Party of Lincoln. This was the issue over which the Civil War was fought. The issue was settled.

Furthermore upon the adoption of the 14th amendment those who sought office were required to reject the disloyalty to our nation entailed by the political philosophy of secession.

It is nothing short of mind boggling to hear Republicans reject the First Principles of their Party. Both Perry and Wamp sound more like John C. Calhoun than Abraham Lincoln and their statements make no more sense today than they did when they were used to rationalize the slavocracy.

It is time for Republicans to once again reject this historically and morally bankrupt political dogma.

Kevin Holsclaw

Well, I guess they could try secession again. But I don't see how the results would be much different from the last time they did - regardless of the fantasies of some here who still remain shocked and distressed by that one.

Yes, fantasies.

I'm kind of awestruck by what I'm reading here.
Have things gotten so bad that we want to dissolve what our founding fathers created?
A union is a united body, a power of one. The solution is not to dissolve the union, its to vote out the evil that runs it. God help us. God's word says if my people who are called by my name will repent of their sins, turn from their wicked ways and seek my face I will hear from heaven and heal their land. SOME HERE ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE GOVERNING DYNAMICS. The Bible says, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Those who are ruining our country will face the judgement seat of God one day, God will either say to each of them, well done thou good and faithful servant, enter thou into the joy of the Lord; or, depart from me ye cursed into everlasting torment, prepared for satan and his angels. Believe what you choose, thats right, the Lord God Almighty gives man free will, but consider this; WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG? Eternal torment in hell never stops, the wise consider this with their decisions. What if the path of your life is facing the wrong direction. I know all about what's going on the the world--its scary stuff if you're not a believer. The Bible also says that God is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. Without Jesus, there is no hope for mankind; not solid, lasting, hope for this life and the hereafter. What did Jesus say to pontius pilate, "you would have no authority over Me if it were not given to you from Above"--who has the greater power? When Jesus crossed the sea and came into the cemetery, and met the demon possessed man, what happened?? There was not one, but many demons inside the man, they said their name was legion--many, many demons. What did they cry out in fear? - "what do you want with us, Jesus, Son of the Most High God"?--who has the greater power? When Jesus returns to this world, which He will, as the Word says so, and its prophesies have never been wrong, nostradamus's have, He wont come as a lamb again, He'll come as a valiant warrior and will destroy all the works of evil and he will take born again, truly saved Christians with him. We fight a fight not against flesh and blood (in a lot of what's going on), but againt principalities, spiritual powers in high places. God is in control and He cares for his own. God wont allow anything bad to happen to us, that doesnt go thru his filter of allowing it first, this is for many good reasons; our growth, His purpose, etc, He loves us more than we truly know. Please read the Bible, our nation can change, but WE THE PEOPLE must change it, thru prayer and seeking God, there is no other way. Pray for our leadership, pray for repentance, pray for wisdom and guidance and direction. I realize this isnt exactly on topic--but the deeper aspects of the crazy things going on in the world today have been foretold, read the Bible. These things have happened, are happening, and will happen. Please, seek God, pray for wisdom. Jesus loves you, read John 3:16. I;ll leave with one more scripture paraphase, as was much of the prior comments, it says in the Word, that 'round the throne of God, a Cheribum of angels crys out 24/7, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come. He's in control and He's coming back for His Own. Please be in that crowd!

All you folks need to wake up and say smell the coffee, together we stand, divided we fall...wake up and save America...

Does anyone know where I can go to read or hear the entire interview. I would like to see if Wamp's comment was taken out of content. It seems like there has been a lot of that going on these days.

What about states that used to be conservative? Oregon 25 years ago was conservative, prosperous and low crime. Now, 2.5 millions of Los Angelesites and San Franciscans later, 650,000 illegals, the state is the most blue of the blue. It's also with 22% unemployment. (The state ceased counting those signed up for unemployment, but no longer eligible for benefits in Jan 2009) A full third of the state is stoned at any given time (since marijuana requires 1 month to completely leave the body, being fat soluble), we make the national news every day on the front page for either crime or something truly stupid for the last 2 months or so, but only represent 1/90th of the U.S. population. It's one region- that of the Portland metro area through Eugene- that controls the rest of the state and has almost destroyed it. This is normal for the U.S. Given that it's the cities that are blue but force the rest of their states to be blue against their will and it's the rural/suburban counties that are now better educated (sorry cities, but it's true now- more degrees/capita and the k-12 public schools tend to be better as well) would it not make more sense for counties to secede from states and form their own states? West Virginia is the only precedent for new states from old and it requires only the vote of the counties so doing, not the permission of the state. This would rather dramatically alter the balance of power and actually most land area of the nation a say. Since large cities/MSAs in the last 30 years drain rural areas of tax funds, rather than the other way around, the change in the senate would also limit the amounts that cities could take from others. Such as LA or NY that adamantly refuse to fix their problems wanting to take from federal coffers or their states instead of making money.

Zack, your an idiot and I hope all the people in Tennessee vote for the other Republican because after your comments, You Can't Be Trusted.

Excellent topics. I really like this. After long searching I found this online that, TheCaringSpace is your nationwide connection for finding elder in-home care and health services – find carefully screened senior home caregivers in your area today! Senior and in home caregivers, find a family or job today!

Zack, you guys tried secession before. How did it work out for you?

You are a wack job, nut case, fruit loop, moron, idiot, your phone is off the hook, your elevator obviously never reaches the top floor, dim bulb, in other words you're a typical Republican.

Division by design …. Did you think Bush senior was kidding when he said there would be a new world order? Did you? Did you not hear when Obama said “We have to shape an international order that can meet the challenges of our generation” Did you think he was kidding? Did you not listen when he said he was going to TRANSFORM America. LOL -- Stupid Americans… your hatred for one another is being orchestrated and you are just to blind and stupid to see it, all of you. Even when it’s right before your very eyes it’s hidden in plain site. You no longer know the difference between right and wrong, truth and a lie. You turned your backs on the things that made the country a beacon to the world and now you are going to pay DEARLY.

Every blue state is bankrupt. Every blue state city is a bucket of crap. Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Portland, Seattle, Philly, New York City, Twin Cities and so forth. Because of liberalism these states and cites suck.

Our founding Fathers saw this destruction by liberals long ago and made the country composing of states. Democrats in the Southern states wanted confederacy, Republicans in the North wanted Union. North suffered much and the south much more.

Today with all the Western States, except CA, and the Southern States, America will break apart. Oregon and Washington will suffer since only Portland and Seattle has leftist kooks controlling but not a by much.

Taxes extorted by the Federal Government to feed the blue states cannot stand much longer. We are fed up and unless liberals are stopped in 2010 and 2 years after, Founding Fathers of States united will cease. It's already occurring in talk and in Conservative movement. Leftists will have to relocate to Canada as they did after the Revolutionary War. United Empire Loyalists, ha! Leftist Canada still sucks. No personality. Typical liberals. United Liberal Federal Loyalists, communists, Democrats, socialists, Canadians, all the same. They are enemies of America. Liberals prefer a divided America. Liberals still want a Confederacy. Just as in 1860.

This time their wish will come and very soon!

Imagine no Liberals,no Illegals, no Obama!
What a world it could be! Liberals are
morally bankrupt! Bye-bye Libs in November

Texas may have joined through a treaty (and I know this well being a native Texan), but the treaty/joint resolution only gave this state the option of breaking into four other states (five in total) rather than outright secession. Also, there was a little something called the War Between the States/Civil War, in which Texas participated on the losing side, which caused the original treaty to become a moot document.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Annexation#Supreme_Court_rules_secession_illegal

i can't believe some people object to health care reform. why is gov't subsidzed medicare/medicaid ok, but these reforms are not? its ok for your tax dollars to fund a war forever, but good god, don't let children and the poor have health coverage! those who are against these reforms obviously have no idea what its like to be uninsured. if the media called this "universal healthcare" instead of "socialized medicine" would there be such an uproar? look to canada, are they communists? really? so go ahead and secede, there goes your medicaid and social-ized security. the rest of us will get along fine, we depend on foreign oil anyway!

Blue State Chick does not need to imagine. The girls of Oregon were indoctrinated in exactly the things that she spoke of in the public schools, starting around 1978 or so. The results? From 1985 to 2000, most high school and college church groups in the state were 80% or more male. It was normal for 10% of men in high school to be sleeping with 90% of the women as they had been trained to "expect the best" by their teachers. By 2000, it was estimated that HIV infection among women was 4x that of men of college age in Oregon and the average woman had 5 STDs vs. zero for men. I was 25 the first time I heard two of Oregon's women my age speak with concern for another person. That is not typical for any other age group or even any other place in this nation. Volunteer work almost completely lacked high school and college age women from 1985 to 2000. The crime rate for women shot up during that period. The scientific aspect really doesn't fit as neither evolution nor many other modern dogmas are scientific as they consistently break physical laws wbenever it's convenient. (Before that is disputed, I doubt very much anyone here has anything even remotely like my scientific and engineering credentials, either: two engineering degrees, one degree each in biology and geology and personal study of astrophysics since 1978 and natural sciences since the 1980s.) It's like the grad student who sends of dinosaur bones as a joke to be C14/N14 dated and theoretically it shouldn't produce a date, but invariably it does. Non sequitur. Speaking of such things, were such indeed that old, there should only be fossils and not actual bone remaining anywhere on the planet. Opalization can occur within 24 hours: one would expect millions of years for it to be a given if no other type of fossilization occurred in silicate rocks, for example. The same for other rock types. Geologic and chemical processes should have either completely altered it's structure through metamorphism or at the very least the brownian motion of the atoms in the bones would have rendered them flat as pancakes under the overburden over so long a period of time. Not supposed to let physics or geology like that get in the way of a good theory, though...

Gods isreally getting tired of seeing his childern misteated one day you libs will see . when Jesus comes back . and if you think the weather is hot here wait tell you live in hell that heat will never end

It is amusing to me that the same folks using secession as a vague threat against the rest of the nation over a healthcare plan are the same folks who called *me* a traitor and a terrorist when I sadly suggested the same course of action while we had a leader forcing our children into a war nobody wanted to fight.

I would love nothing more for an issue like immigration to divide the states and create a new rift. That's an act of treason, boys, and you'd best believe it'll result in a war. Now this may be what you all secretly want, to violently defend the vestiges of racism that have plagued the southern states since the Declaration was signed. But you have to understand that those of us who are real, true, honest Americans, are far more bloodthirsty about freedom for all than you guys are about freedom for just a few.

The problem with Conservatism is that you can only Con the people for so long.

Even the founder of the Republican Party admitted they couldn't fool all the people all the time.

no one would contest a state leaving - no one would fight to maintain a state in the union ... so legal or not, it could easily be done.

Secession as a unilateral act by a state stands as an unconstitutional act regardless of which state is involved.

Texas: annexation was performed by a joint resolution of Congress. The resolution took no special note of secession. Neither did the failed treaty of annexation. Both used more or less the exact same language.

All States: currently subject to the Supreme Court's decision in Texas v White (1869) which denied the possibility of unilateral secession by a state.

Actually if this happens then goobye united states of america

One of the more interesting questions pertaining to the Civil War is why didn't the North just send the South off on its merry way rather than to endure the struggle it went through.

Accordingly, it now would make sense to consider what sort of relatively amicable divorce might be feasible. E.g., there's all sorts of retirees down in the southern parts, and following the split somebody else is going to have to pay their Social Security. And they're not walking away without assuming their share of the debt. ( Hey, it's not me that says so, the banksters would insist. )

Still, the time has come to draw up contingency plans so that - if they really do want to split - we can just divvy up the pot and say goodbye.

The amount of hatred seen here in these comments are not surprising. What is surprising to not see is the issue at hand. America is being taken over by a group of Marxists. They want to divide us. We need to clean house and work together, and find common ground that will allow us to keep our country. Our founding fathers were able to do this, and we can too ! But the most important thing to do is to look to God for help and guidance. If we intend to keep this country strong and free, we need His help to do so. We don't need self guided men and women seeking to wield power and control over all of us. We need men and women to go to D.C. and do their part in behalf of the country as a whole. Not for their personal, special interest needs. North or South, we are a great people. The whole world looks to us because they want what we have...freedom. If we fall, so does the rest of the world. Into the end days global governance. Headed by the the worst dictator that man will ever know. Do we really want this ? Repent, and Pray Our Lord will heal our land. So we can begin to help others to be able to help themselves.
1 John 2. 9 -11

If they're going to secede, the Democrats could at least make it over a decent health care bill and not a hand-out to the health insurance companies of 35-50 million new customers, leaves millions without access to health care, and tiers people into health care based on income, not the human right to quality health regardless.

Give them something to really get worked up about. Open up Medicare to the nation, and kiss the red states good-bye. They can take the health insurance industry with them. And we can see what the Democrats are really made out of.

1st off when people say "Civil War' you do know that that means a war between 2 groups fighting over control of 1 gov't. in the war for southern independence's case there was a gov't in the south & 1 in the north. so the north invaded a newely founded nation (since there was also a gov't formed in the south) to force them back. what would you libs think if England won vs the Colonists? did you libs celebrate independence day? i ask b/c guess what?! the 13 colonies seceded from England. that Declaration of Independence is a secessionist letter to the King. so the confederates did exactly what the colonists did... leave tyranny (an ancient greek word for unconstitutional rule).

now i'm sure you libs and the fake conservatives know that the new england states threatened to secede during Jefferson's presidency. maine wanted to secede to canada. the mississippi regions wanted to secede and as Jefferson said 'if we have a mississippi confederacy & an atlantic confederacy that is their choice". just b/c some tyranny (Lincoln) waged total war to forced the south into the union of states that each state voted on joining doesn't mean its illegal to do it again. why would a state sign a contract that it could never ever leave if the centralized federal gov't who has a monopoly on its own rules in determining them? this makes no sense esp since the founders were all fearful of a centralized gov't like England had & warned us of consolidating power to a centralized gov't.

here's a nice video entitled 'is secession crazy?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kuvj6FIefo

also, if states did redeclare their independence from this tyranny how would the centralized Leviathan in DC survive? haha it wouldn't b/c it needs our tax dollars to redistribute aka STEAL from us to pay for all the welfare programs. Leviathan would starve and you liberal minded people that don't even know why you are liberal that don't live how your beliefs preach (isn't liberal from the root word liberty aka liberate? what is it you guys want to liberate from? liberty is not beholden to a cenralized dictatorship.. the only thing you libs want freedom is is killing babies & guys impregnating another guy thru his rectum).

no centralized consolidated gov't has ever survived in a republic this size. the states created the federal gov't and the states can end the federal gov't. the president is not to be a king. the supreme court is not to be lawmakers. the congress is only held to 18 enumerated powers .. thats it. Just 18. not whatever the hell they want.

article V, nullification, or redeclaring independence aka secession is the only way to rid this tyranny.

A few facts to cut through all the vitriol:
- The secession issue was settled in 1865, subsequently confirmed by the Supreme Court.
- One can make a case that taxes should be lower. However, the "excessively burdensome", "confiscatory" or "STEALING" tax rates we have today are considerably LOWER than those in the 1950s and 1960s...and the "hikes" being discussed talk of returning to the tax rates of the 1990s. All of which, by the way, had much more sustained economic growth than today--and somehow were not regarded with nearly the same level of flaming rhetoric as today.
- The "Red States" where talk of secession is being bandied about by a few also happen to be the states that, on average, get more federal tax dollars back to their states than they send in. So in effect, they are making a profit on their federal taxes. The argument that such states should secede based on the overstep of an oppressive federal government bleeding them of their money is....counterfactual. As in based on an theory at odds with the facts.

Finally, none of the Red states will secede. So all those talking about secession are simply handing their political opponents a big stick they will get hit with over and over again, driving away independent/swing voters who are not happy with how things are going but find the talk of secession to be wildly out of bounds. So in addition to being counterfactual, all this secession talk is counterproductive for conservatives.

onearm steve - Stop that! You're GOING to go blind.

If you'd stop jacking off to all of your wingnut fantasies, typed with both hands, and called yourself 'TWOarmsteve' maybe you'd be a little more articulate, less insane and more understandable. Put down the White Citizens Council and John Birch Society newsletters, and go find a remedial English class.

lana - It is always amazing to me how extremist rightwing morons like you so easily conflate religion and politics, consigning, for example, "libs" to hell for "mistreating God's people" in some undefined way.

How desperate you and 'onearm' must be to "take back" America to a different century. And how delusional you are to think that it will ever happen.

The fundamentally inarticulate, anti-liberal rants of all the wingnuts here, so reminiscent of every childish temper tantrum that I have ever witnessed in my life, are really getting tiresome. America is changing into a more tolerant and diverse place. All the wingnuts here need to just get used to it, or get out and take their fascist instincts with them.

All this talk about secession greatly offends my sense of patriotism. Too many men and women died over the course of our history to preserve our Union and our liberty. Red state or blue state, the United States has a time-honored way to effect change, and that is through the ballot box. The officials we elect should ideally govern in the spirit of reasoned debate and consensus, in the same spirit by which they were elected by the consent of the governed, expressed through a majority at the polls.
Many of the posters in this thread on either side of the political fence would seem to need a lesson in civics, and a few might benefit from therapy.

Many of you have opined that Red States are "sucking" in a disproportionate share of tax subsidies, and that Red State secession would be a blessing to the remainder. Well...isn't it the case that YOU are the ones who created the current tax regime? Was there a single Red State that supported LBJ's Great Society objectives? If you approve of this tax regime then what are you complaining about? We didn't "impose" your tax dollars on us--you did.

Mississippi, the nation's poorest state per capita also has the world's 50th largest economy. Just how much do you think Red States would suffer without your tax subsidies? Is it possible that interstate highway infrastructure between south and north would decay to the point where we no longer had to hear the sound of your effeminate whining as it passed through our communities? Would cutting us off from the sugar-tit of your benevolence deprive us of government sponsored crucifixes in jars of piss? Is it possible that getting the willfully indolent off of the welfare dole and into the job market would somehow diminish the quality of their citizenship?

If so, then count me in for secession!

Anything is preferable to listening to the monotonous drone of your sissy philosophy.

This is unbelievable. I mean seriously,,,,the fact of the matter is that BOTH sides would suffer in any sort of dissillusionment between the states. We have a way to change things we don't like, and that way is VOTING. I swear to God if one more conservative tells me to move to Canada if I don't like how conservative this country is, I will scream,,,NO. I'm an AMERICAN. And it's my RIGHT to stay here and try and change what I do not like! This is MY COUNTRY TOO! What's more, Canada has immigration laws, and I'm sure they don't want people swarming North simply because they aren't in love with their government, be it liberal or conservative. I'll continue to vote my liberal agenda whether conservatives like it or not. And if THEY don't like it, THEY can move if they think that's how you solve differences!

Having said that, I live in a red state (Florida). We have a home here, and jobs here, our son is going to college here, and we will continue to vote democrat here. I can't just up and move North to satisfy some idea that all liberals should live North and all conservatives should live South of the Mason Dixon. If (ridiculous thought) Florida seceeded from the union, I imagine there are conservatives living in blue states who would be just as displaced should the country split.

You solve differences by VOTING and supporting the party that represents your values. It so happens, I believe in a more liberal government. That is what I will continue to vote for. But change takes a long time. However, the younger generation coming up is far more liberal than a huge percentage of our population right now,,,,it's my belief more liberal change is right around the corner. That's the way our government was set up to work,,,,we've gotten progressively liberal over the past 200 years, and some of those liberal changes are treasured American values today!!! Women voting, the ability of women to hold property aside from her husband, the citizenship of African American people and their value to our society, etc etc etc. It's my belief that some of the values developing today will become treasured American values in 100 years.

It's ridiculous to push for secession. We're a country. "One nation under God, indivisible",,,,

if we can't battle it out like adults, we don't deserve the wonderful freedoms offered by that same nation.

All this flap about secession is ridiculous. Tennessee, South Carolina, and Texas are the only states to even talk about it, and after Rick Perry even off-handedly mentioned it, 80% of Texans polled were against, and I can't imagine a majority of voters in TN or SC are in favor either. Three relatively poor states that don't even share a contiguous border aren't going to leave, much less the more moderate red states like NC or VA. Everyone chill.

As a Tennesseean I'm not surprised by anything Zach Wamp says in his desperate attempt to win the GOP primary for Governor. He's not qualified to be governor and is resorting to this kind of riduculous rhetoric to appeal to the tea party wing of the GOP.
Zach isn't the brightest bulb but surely he remembers that we decided this question 150 years ago.
Coincidently, when TN seceded from the Union only the western 2/3rds of state agreed to do so--East Tn has been a GOP stronghold since 1860

I'm a native Tennessean and trust me, we have a long history of rejecting idiots like Zach Wamp!! Tennessee's real roots are moderate, with fierce independence from rigid ideologies of any stripe, particularly Wamp's. It grows out of the state's rugged mountain pioneer heritage, and there's a strong and growing progressive base in Tennessee's five large metro areas (Nashville, Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga, TriCities) and in many of its scenic rural areas.

Nashville is a mecca for creativity in music and many other arenas, that draws free-thinkers from around the world, and is home to 19 colleges including Vanderbilt. Chattanooga has been a global leader in the sustainable cities movement for 20 years, which is in part why Volkswagen chose it to build its new US green car factory. The first mass-produced electric car, the Nissan Leaf, is being built now in Smyrna, and Nissan recently relocated US headquarters to Nashville from Southern California.

Our current two-term Democratic governor is a really sharp guy (Phil Bredesen), with a physics degree from Harvard, and was re-elected in 2006 by the largest margin in state history (over 80%). He's a common-sense moderate in every way, yet who continually seeks out new and innovative ideas. He's made Tennessee one of the top 3 states for attracting green jobs, including Billions in new solar investments.

Well-known moderate TN Republicans include Howard Baker and Lamar Alexander, and the current leading candidate for governor Bill Haslam, mayor of Knoxville.

Like any place with such a varied landscape as Tennessee, we've always had a few crazy characters who periodically emerge from the fringes, make a little noise, then eventually get laughed off the stage-- and Wamp is just the latest. But don't doubt our ability to deal with these type demagogues.

In many ways this state is and can be the model for a new American harmony, based on moderate pragmatism flavored by both conservative and progressive ideas. It's become a real melting pot for both Red and Blue, and may just help point the way forward.

Cheers--

The "Red States"are home to 70% Oil refineries, strategic oil reserves, trunk pipelines, Mississippi river commercial shipping, Gulf coast tanker terminals, great plains grain production. If not for this great abundance bestowed upon the masses living upon the eastern seaboard, conditions might deteriorate, might even lead to tantrums!

If the Red States were to secede to from the Union, the Blue States would not be able to adequately field a military to defend themselves against foreign or domestic enemies. The majority of active duty military personnel are from Red States. The majority, but not all of those serving from the Blue States are minorities or inner cities Caucasians, both of which are held in ridicule and contempt by the elites who make up the ruling class of the Blue States. Most Blue States have extremely restrictive gun laws, which trash the 2nd amendment and ensure that only civilians who are familiar with firearms are criminals.
Near the end of the Civil War, NYC reverted to paying Irish Immigrants to serve in the Union Army as the war became more and more unpopular. Eventually draft riots broke out. It is logical to assume that today the Blue States would do the same if another Civil War broke out, only Hispanic Immigrants would take the place of the Irish. The Confederacy seceded from the Union and ultimately lost the Civil War not because of the superior intellectual prowess of the North, but because of the disparity of man power and industry (as related to manufacturing war goods). If the civil war transpired today, the outcome would be extremely different. I served in the military for 8 years, as well as a year in combat, I believe I have some insight into this issue.
In regard to belief that all of the best mathematics and science universities are in the Blue States, a majority of the students and professors in these schools are now foreign born , not Red State natives. It is interesting to note that the only state that has elected an Indian American Governor is LA, and South Carolina is about to do the same. It appears the despised ‘Bubbas’ aren’t as racist as we would be led to believed by the media elites in NYC, and DC. I’m sure VP Biden is dying to ask Bobby Jindal or Nikki Haley for a 7 Eleven Big Gulp.
I live north of Seattle (Blue side of WA State), and we are seeing Boeing move production to South Carolina. A number of high tech manufactures are looking towards relocated towards Red States, which will further weaken the Blue State’s economic prowess.
If secession were to occur the Blue States would not have an adequate military to defend themselves (NYC Times can start printing Sharia Law in its OP ED section). This combined with the loss of high tech manufacturing jobs may result in Red Staters truly ‘Whistling Dixie”.
Although I do not believe that the majority of Blue Staters are inherently evil, I believe they are truly elitists. I’m a college educated former active duty military Neanderthal who is relocating to a Red State as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

If any mortgage company suddenly sent out notices informing people that their mortgage agreements had been unilaterally rewritten to allow those banks to move foreclosed families into their homes to ease the housing burden, I doubt that any home owner would submit to such nonsense. However, blue state residents, by and large, approve of the Federal Government reinterpreting the Constitution on a daily basis. The language of the Constitution is still relatively easy to understand as are the Federalist and Antifedralist Papers along with the constitutions of the 13 original states. Instead of throwing around insults based on ignorance why don't you educate yourselves on the recorded thoughts of our founding fathers instead of your dimly remembered lies provided to you by your socialist U.S. History professor during your freshman year. Our founding fathers invented the only successful system of self rule in the history of the world, and warned what would happen if our citizens ignored the lessons learned from every other "democracy". Their warnings were eerily prescient.

[quote]If the Red States were to secede to from the Union, the Blue States would not be able to adequately field a military to defend themselves against foreign or domestic enemies. [/quote]

That's what the south said in 1861.

Secession of the Southern States is already a foregone conclusion. We have a working Southern National Congress, formed after the 1774 Continential Congress and we all know what happened two years later in 1776! The 3rd Southern National Congress convenes later this year and many southern state legislators will be there. You yankees are no different than your unholy ancestors. You have no fear of God Almighty, and most of you are destined for an eternity in the lake of fire. No matter if you believe it or not, it's gonna happen. Say hello to Lincoln, Grant, Sherman and the many other murdering yankee infidels when Jesus casts you into the lake of fire, burning with brimstone. And I and many other God-fearing Confederate Patriots will join Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jefferson Davis, R.E. Lee, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, and all the other saints of the Most High God in the New Jerusalem to enjoy eternal happiness and joy. For just as Jesus said, "ye are of your father the devil." And take your mulatto muslim illegal president with you!!!

"If we assume your absurd argument has any merit, what will you do when the engineers - nearly all of whom were educated in the blue states ( MIT, Cal. Poly, the Ivy's,) flee for home?"

Actually, the U.S. city with the highest per capita concentration of PhD's is Huntsville, Alabama. I can't think of a single "red state" that doesn't have multiple engineering schools.

I'm not for secession at all, but I was shocked at the ignorance inherent in many of the "blue state" arguments on this thread. It's obvious that most here haven't traveled much, because the opinions and attitudes are stuck in the 1930's.

"Still, the time has come to draw up contingency plans so that - if they really do want to split - we can just divvy up the pot and say goodbye."

Sir, there is no "pot" left to divvy up.